1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,760 Think about it. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Ok, we have so much work to do. 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,541 We don't consider people abnormal. 4 00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:24,500 We don't consider people good or bad. 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,500 We consider the background they come from 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,630 and we try to generate a background 7 00:00:32,110 --> 00:00:34,540 that will eliminate those behaviors. 8 00:00:35,363 --> 00:00:37,592 However, during the transition 9 00:00:37,940 --> 00:00:40,182 that will be extremely difficult. 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,383 After we establish the educational system 11 00:00:44,660 --> 00:00:48,500 and a language that has uniform meaning 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,775 not subject to interpretation. 13 00:00:51,310 --> 00:00:54,442 As long as [there's] 'subject to interpretation' language 14 00:00:54,770 --> 00:00:59,240 you're going to have wide variations in human conclusions 15 00:00:59,956 --> 00:01:02,020 but if we can develop a language 16 00:01:02,220 --> 00:01:04,370 like mathematics or chemistry 17 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,950 or a language that has uniform meaning like engineering 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,400 in that case, most people will understand one another. 19 00:01:13,690 --> 00:01:15,420 As long as you go on 20 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,383 the way we've been going on 21 00:01:17,579 --> 00:01:21,359 language will always be subject to interpretation. 22 00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:24,810 I don't say that people will pick up the new language 23 00:01:25,020 --> 00:01:26,894 and begin to use it. 24 00:01:27,140 --> 00:01:29,889 The transition will be painful 25 00:01:30,175 --> 00:01:33,340 and will be comprised of many different types 26 00:01:33,550 --> 00:01:35,423 of human behavior. 27 00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:38,971 We're not talking about right or wrong, good or bad. 28 00:01:39,230 --> 00:01:43,969 We're talking about human behavior that's reinforcing to all people. 29 00:01:44,290 --> 00:01:48,394 That's the kind of behavior we will attempt to generate 30 00:01:48,650 --> 00:01:51,067 by maintaining an environment 31 00:01:51,460 --> 00:01:54,594 that informs people as to the nature 32 00:01:54,790 --> 00:01:58,200 and factors that shape human behavior. 33 00:01:58,670 --> 00:02:02,720 - Talk about the role of research 34 00:02:03,270 --> 00:02:07,050 in the future in this type of society. 35 00:02:07,460 --> 00:02:11,290 How would the findings of behavioral research 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,860 influence society? 37 00:02:14,660 --> 00:02:16,980 Do you feel that it would, or do you feel that 38 00:02:17,140 --> 00:02:20,250 behavioral research would not exist in the future? 39 00:02:21,140 --> 00:02:24,366 - I think it will exist during the transition 40 00:02:24,850 --> 00:02:26,647 There's no question about it. 41 00:02:26,870 --> 00:02:28,833 They will try... 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,883 Since most people during the transition 43 00:02:32,090 --> 00:02:34,380 are not scientifically oriented 44 00:02:34,660 --> 00:02:37,371 they will try to identify the reasons 45 00:02:37,610 --> 00:02:40,202 for behavior that's not desirable. 46 00:02:40,342 --> 00:02:42,385 If they're wrong it won't work 47 00:02:42,535 --> 00:02:44,600 whatever treatment they come up with. 48 00:02:44,740 --> 00:02:47,806 If they happen to be on the right track, it'll work. 49 00:02:48,196 --> 00:02:52,640 The only real difference between the scientific method is 50 00:02:53,230 --> 00:02:57,060 if many people try the same experiments 51 00:02:57,359 --> 00:03:01,902 and get the same results, it means that the system is vaild. 52 00:03:02,417 --> 00:03:04,360 If they get different results 53 00:03:04,510 --> 00:03:07,181 it means they have to do further experimenting 54 00:03:07,395 --> 00:03:11,940 to try to ascertain what it is that shapes human behavior. 55 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,675 During the transition there will be differences of opinion 56 00:03:16,910 --> 00:03:19,163 due to the language interpretation. 57 00:03:19,390 --> 00:03:21,971 That's why I say we have to develop a language 58 00:03:22,180 --> 00:03:25,417 that has uniform meaning to people. 59 00:03:26,343 --> 00:03:29,520 What determines the accuracy of this system? 60 00:03:29,996 --> 00:03:32,381 How well does the system work? 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,331 If it works well, we use it. 62 00:03:35,471 --> 00:03:38,907 If it doesn't, there's more work that has to be done. 63 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,431 It's a very rational approach 64 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:46,360 without taking favorite points of view and pushing them 65 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:50,201 because society accepts erroneous points of view. 66 00:03:51,170 --> 00:03:56,100 I think that in the future we can condition people to appreciate 67 00:03:56,650 --> 00:03:58,891 information accumulation 68 00:03:59,250 --> 00:04:01,880 rather than random opinions. 69 00:04:02,510 --> 00:04:05,035 Information accumulation means 70 00:04:05,450 --> 00:04:08,840 testing results, testing methods 71 00:04:09,230 --> 00:04:11,830 and if they work, we use them, if they don't work 72 00:04:11,970 --> 00:04:16,110 or if they work part of the way, we use that part which works. 73 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:19,050 There is no other way to learn 74 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,090 except to make decisions that are less correct 75 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,605 and that's based on background. 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,796 I think that in the future 77 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:30,670 children will be educated in using 78 00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:33,350 scientific methods of evaluation 79 00:04:33,830 --> 00:04:37,080 but they'll also know that the methods used 80 00:04:37,290 --> 00:04:40,220 are not the best. They're the best we've come up with. 81 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,000 If a kid suggests other methods 82 00:04:43,180 --> 00:04:45,750 we say "Why don't you test it out and let us know 83 00:04:45,890 --> 00:04:47,886 what results you get?" 84 00:04:48,787 --> 00:04:51,900 If I tell Larry "You can't grow food that way" 85 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,376 and he finds out that he can 86 00:04:54,578 --> 00:04:56,242 he has to inform me: 87 00:04:56,382 --> 00:04:59,269 "I did these same things 88 00:04:59,493 --> 00:05:02,341 that you said didn't work", 89 00:05:02,540 --> 00:05:05,770 then obviously, I have to turn around and say 90 00:05:05,930 --> 00:05:07,901 "I didn't know that." 91 00:05:08,390 --> 00:05:11,740 Can the average person participate? 92 00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:15,800 They usually are not qualified unless they study 93 00:05:16,020 --> 00:05:19,150 hydroponics or chemotherapy 94 00:05:19,330 --> 00:05:22,120 or something related to the field 95 00:05:22,260 --> 00:05:26,573 but just bursting out with "I don't know that I like that" 96 00:05:26,780 --> 00:05:30,458 I can't deal with that. What do you think or suggest? 97 00:05:30,830 --> 00:05:32,497 People say 98 00:05:32,710 --> 00:05:35,765 "Will you experiment on animals in the future?" 99 00:05:36,290 --> 00:05:39,100 If you have a new vaccination 100 00:05:39,420 --> 00:05:41,710 that may help rabies 101 00:05:41,850 --> 00:05:46,661 or some other human pattern of behavior that's less desirable 102 00:05:47,252 --> 00:05:50,377 do you want us to give that shot to the person 103 00:05:51,150 --> 00:05:53,780 or not? What is it you want to do? 104 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,390 Do you want to give it to chimpanzees and see what effect it has 105 00:05:57,530 --> 00:05:59,540 or do you want to give it to a human being 106 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,843 or are you willing to accept new, experimental shots? 107 00:06:04,390 --> 00:06:07,565 "I don't want to give it to animals, but I don't want to..." 108 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:09,860 Well, you're not offering anything. 109 00:06:10,060 --> 00:06:14,320 Every vaccination that you get has been tried on animals 110 00:06:14,590 --> 00:06:16,861 because people didn't know what else to do. 111 00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:19,454 They didn't know who else to try it on. 112 00:06:19,709 --> 00:06:23,710 There were some doctors that said "I will shoot myself with it 113 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:26,250 because I have no right to shoot anyone else." 114 00:06:26,430 --> 00:06:28,193 A lot of them died. 115 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,387 Do you want doctors to try it on themselves 116 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,700 or have you a new approach to that problem 117 00:06:34,850 --> 00:06:37,340 so we don't have to try it on animals? 118 00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:40,217 What do you suggest as a new approach? 119 00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:44,420 You say "Well, maybe we can build an artificial blood circuit." 120 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,689 Go to work on that. See if you can. 121 00:06:48,390 --> 00:06:51,810 I'm not against people suggesting other things 122 00:06:52,010 --> 00:06:56,157 but the suggestions better be based on some knowledge 123 00:06:56,430 --> 00:07:00,278 of the human circulatory system or disease. Yes? 124 00:07:01,180 --> 00:07:04,430 - Jacque, I think on the frequently asked questions section 125 00:07:04,570 --> 00:07:08,584 it says The Venus Project doesn't support animal testing. 126 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,379 - Yes. 127 00:07:12,174 --> 00:07:14,929 It doesn't. - This is not really the case though is it? 128 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,320 - Well, during the transition 129 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,390 during the transition, yes. 130 00:07:19,530 --> 00:07:24,696 After the transition, people will be researching like mad 131 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,720 all different possible alternatives 132 00:07:28,060 --> 00:07:30,789 to try to alleviate that condition. 133 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,655 I don't like raising cows or pigs for the dinner table 134 00:07:36,950 --> 00:07:41,130 but we'd have to study more on nutrition 135 00:07:41,470 --> 00:07:44,220 and how meat affects human behavior 136 00:07:44,450 --> 00:07:47,429 and if it's detrimental to human behavior. 137 00:07:47,690 --> 00:07:51,356 People say "Well, I don't believe in killing animals." 138 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,210 Maybe, with the possibility of nanotechnology 139 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:58,180 we can make liver tissue, beef 140 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,710 without raising animals and killing them. 141 00:08:00,970 --> 00:08:04,792 We might be able to take atoms and arrange them 142 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,750 into whatever molecular configuration is desirable: 143 00:08:08,969 --> 00:08:11,500 vegetables or animal tissue. 144 00:08:11,810 --> 00:08:14,610 That would mean no killing or torture of animals 145 00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:18,100 but unless you come up with the nanotechnology 146 00:08:18,490 --> 00:08:21,480 they will continue to do the testing 147 00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:24,939 on what they consider inferior animals 148 00:08:25,370 --> 00:08:27,648 unless you suggest something else 149 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,900 so we have to do a fantastic amount of research. 150 00:08:32,930 --> 00:08:36,860 In doing research we can come up with ideas 151 00:08:37,104 --> 00:08:41,161 but not doing research, saying "I don't believe in killing animals" 152 00:08:41,380 --> 00:08:45,914 if you don't suggest an alternative, they will go on doing that 153 00:08:47,290 --> 00:08:50,990 so I suggest a great deal of experimental work. 154 00:08:51,530 --> 00:08:54,920 If the experiments are wrong, it just won't work. 155 00:08:56,351 --> 00:08:58,410 A lot of people want to know 156 00:08:58,750 --> 00:09:02,240 "How do I know that these cities will cost less?" 157 00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:05,797 I'm not going to give them the figures on that because 158 00:09:05,999 --> 00:09:09,382 all I know is if you repeat the same design 159 00:09:10,260 --> 00:09:14,310 (in this case it's eight times) it's going to cost less. 160 00:09:14,570 --> 00:09:18,087 If every building is a different size, it's going to cost more. 161 00:09:18,330 --> 00:09:20,300 If you standardize 162 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,971 windows and everything else in the mid-buildings 163 00:09:24,296 --> 00:09:25,900 the cost is less 164 00:09:26,060 --> 00:09:28,240 but if every skyscraper has windows 165 00:09:28,370 --> 00:09:30,600 that are custom built for that building 166 00:09:30,802 --> 00:09:35,410 you're going to have to pay more in terms of energy to get that. 167 00:09:35,842 --> 00:09:37,570 If transportation 168 00:09:37,700 --> 00:09:41,957 is built in the middle of the city zone, it goes around. 169 00:09:42,420 --> 00:09:44,407 (I mention that many times.) 170 00:09:44,610 --> 00:09:48,935 They want to know what the figures are, how much it will cost to do that. 171 00:09:49,180 --> 00:09:51,254 That's a price system question. 172 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,807 Do we have resources to do it? That's the real question. 173 00:09:56,220 --> 00:10:00,459 How much concrete do we have, and if we don't have enough concrete 174 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:06,046 what kind of new materials can we develop to take care of that? 175 00:10:06,340 --> 00:10:11,278 Basically, I can't give them cost estimates because 176 00:10:11,570 --> 00:10:14,657 land costs vary. It depends on where it is 177 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:19,570 and how far that land is from concrete. 178 00:10:19,730 --> 00:10:23,465 Siam has the largest concrete company in the world 179 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,590 so if it's built in Siam, it'll cost less 180 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:30,787 but if it's too far away from Siam 181 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:33,760 we'd use other composite materials. 182 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,230 I can't tell you, maybe ten years from now 183 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:41,537 or five years from now a new material comes out 184 00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:45,298 so why should I specify that all these would be built 185 00:10:45,550 --> 00:10:48,440 of concrete reinforced with metal? 186 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,373 I don't know what new materials will come out. 187 00:10:51,570 --> 00:10:55,040 At that time, if it's five years from now 188 00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:57,850 it'll be the latest material. 189 00:10:58,230 --> 00:11:00,544 Right now if I design a city 190 00:11:00,770 --> 00:11:03,040 of what I know of up to now 191 00:11:03,260 --> 00:11:06,239 it won't be the latest. It won't be the best. 192 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,683 Do you understand that? 193 00:11:08,910 --> 00:11:12,289 There are other problems that I mentioned in the past: 194 00:11:12,580 --> 00:11:15,140 giving people blueprints to cities. 195 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,930 They can take out patents on it 196 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,293 that can stop us from putting it up because they own the patents. 197 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,170 I can't just hand out blueprints of cities to people 198 00:11:27,570 --> 00:11:30,260 because certain things I don't know. 199 00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:34,680 Let's say that the soil is 65 ft deep 200 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,980 then you come to bedrock. Do you know what that is? 201 00:11:38,316 --> 00:11:42,775 So, you need piling under the building all the way down to the bedrock. 202 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,840 I can't give you any estimate on the city 203 00:11:46,030 --> 00:11:50,190 unless a geologist shows me a cross section of the soil. 204 00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:54,906 I don't know how many piles we need. Are we 15 ft from bedrock? 205 00:11:55,102 --> 00:11:57,150 Are we on solid bedrock? 206 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,240 New York has bedrock about 10 to 20 ft down 207 00:12:02,690 --> 00:12:06,726 and so big skyscrapers can go up without too much piling. 208 00:12:07,330 --> 00:12:09,437 I can't know all those things. 209 00:12:09,628 --> 00:12:14,170 If I gathered information of all the areas of the world 210 00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:18,320 I would be giving people all kinds of information 211 00:12:18,460 --> 00:12:21,370 to save them a lot of financial investment 212 00:12:21,650 --> 00:12:23,781 in a monetary system. 213 00:12:24,050 --> 00:12:27,245 They might begin to turn out cities like this 214 00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:30,150 because they're more financially 215 00:12:31,822 --> 00:12:35,520 able to turn out cities if they economize. 216 00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:39,201 That's about the only kind of information I can give out. 217 00:12:39,436 --> 00:12:41,493 I can't give out specifics 218 00:12:41,690 --> 00:12:44,289 because I don't know what people will do with it. 219 00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:48,640 Our job now is cleaning up the mess 220 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,762 rendered by the free enterprise system 221 00:12:52,050 --> 00:12:54,527 which can take years to clean up. 222 00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:57,849 I don't like that but we have to do it. 223 00:12:58,150 --> 00:13:00,872 If we don't clean up the mess, the oceans... 224 00:13:01,150 --> 00:13:03,840 They say they have epidemics 225 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,080 of certain types of fish dying and coming ashore. 226 00:13:08,540 --> 00:13:12,852 What the hell to do research on what's killing the fish! 227 00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:16,205 We want to remove what's killing the fish! 228 00:13:16,582 --> 00:13:18,260 Do you understand what I mean? 229 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,330 Is it the radioactive material the army dumped in the sea? 230 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,488 Is it the nerve gas the army dumped in the sea? I don't care what it is. 231 00:13:26,750 --> 00:13:31,072 Whatever it is, we have to clean it up as best we can. 232 00:13:31,394 --> 00:13:37,030 I don't know, by the time we get to the first Venus Project City 233 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:42,800 how far along will they dump and poison the air and all that. 234 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:46,450 There comes a point of no return. 235 00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:49,662 If you've done too much damage to the environment 236 00:13:49,930 --> 00:13:52,620 we cannot solve those problems. 237 00:13:53,220 --> 00:13:56,793 If you let the price system go (the money system) 238 00:13:57,390 --> 00:14:01,190 the pollution will arrive at a density 239 00:14:01,330 --> 00:14:04,802 where it's impractical to clean up.